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genus=* for natural=tree, natural=tree_row #266

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genus=* for natural=tree, natural=tree_row #266

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ltog
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@ltog ltog commented May 28, 2021

This PR adds a selection of values for key genus=* to be used in natural=tree and natural=tree_row.

The list of values mostly consists of the top results of https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/genus#values (minus some non-tree genera), complemented by some further genera (Abies, Cydonia, Pyrus). Having these values should cover approx. 80% of all currently existing usages of genus=* in OSM.

The english names were taken from Wikipedia, sometimes they describe commonly known species of a genus, not the genus itself, e.g. for Prunus.

Since I'm neither a native English speaker, nor a biologist, this PR will probably contain some errors...

@simonpoole
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Have you seen https://github.com/Heiner-Sch/JOSM-preset-trees-Europe ? IMHO it would be better to improve that (that is add the vespucci translation system and maybe pictures). Naturally making the default preset better is a good idea too. I would suggest using the <list_entry> ... </list_entry> format for the values in the combo in any case, it is much easier to maintain for more complicated tags.

The other thing is, people that know something about bio aka not myself, find that adding genus is at best redundant and that you should be using species, any opinion on that?

@ltog
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ltog commented Jun 1, 2021

@simonpoole : Aw, crap. I did not know https://github.com/Heiner-Sch/JOSM-preset-trees-Europe . My goal was simply to be able to tag the trees that I (as a layman) can recognize, primarily i.e. oaks, maples and birches, and from there it grew a bit further...

I think, at the moment I (and a lot of other mappers) would not be able to discern species of the aforementioned genera. However, I think having only genus=* tagged might still be useful: Say you look for some acorns/oaknuts to do some handicraft work with your kids. OSM can tell you, where to find the next tree...

Shall we keep this addition to the master preset? Will it interfere with the specialized tree preset? Shall I reduce the number of entries to only keep the ones that laymen are able to recognize? Maybe @Heiner-Sch has an opinion on this too...

I wasn't aware of <list_entry>, that certainly makes sense... I can adjust the preset if we decide to keep it...

@Heiner-Sch
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There is also a version for Vespucci available: https://github.com/Heiner-Sch/Vespucci-preset-trees-Europe
Here is the Vespucci translation in, but no pictures.

In both presets, for JOSM and Vespucci, you have the possibility to use the unspecified trees.
In this case only the genus is tagged.

@ltog
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ltog commented Sep 8, 2021

Erm, @simonpoole , @Heiner-Sch : How do we proceed?

I can either introduce <list_entry>s and make the PR mergeable again, or then we'd ditch it...?

I still think having the genera (only) might be useful for the occasional (layman's) mapping but acknowledge that it has the potential of fragmenting further efforts of refining tree tagging...

@Heiner-Sch
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Did you start using the preset?

About the genus-only tagging: Yes, it generates effort to complete the trees.
But what, if someone tag's only a tree with the default preset?
There is room for improvement most of the time, also with the trees I tagged.

My idea was, to built a preset, usable for every level of knowledge, in many situations - from the quick layman to the accurate scientist.
Maybe someone starts with tagging broad-leafed and needle-leafed trees, continues after some weeks with full specified trees and finishes months later by tag the measures of the trees also. Everything with the same preset.

I hope to motivate some people to learn more about the trees, if they see that there is more possible, but not obligatory.

With this idea in mind, it's maybe not necessary to reduce the number of listed trees.
Maybe it's useful to highlight the genus-only trees somehow?
So that the starting laymen are not scared to much.

What's your view on this?

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