Skip to content

Conversation

@sedonaprice
Copy link

@sedonaprice sedonaprice commented Aug 21, 2025

TL;DR: Proposed spherical regions classes (implemented, with demos); if greenlit, need to implement test suite, docs before this would be ready to mark as a "non-draft" pull request. I would be very grateful for initial feedback by ~mid Sept (09/15).

Hello!

First, a huge thank you to regions' developers, for making this extremely useful package available!

I'd like to propose an implementation of spherical sky regions, complementing the planar pixel and (implicitly planar) sky region classes. (I've seen a number of issues / past discussions on this topic and how it might be implemented, but my understanding is this development has not yet been done.)

I've discussed these proposed classes with @eteq, and I'm keen to get feedback from other key folks (gleaned from past issue discussions --- @pllim, @larrybradley, @keflavich, and of course anyone else!)

Some background: I originally developed these classes as part of my work at STScI. Specifically, I needed "helper class" functionality to help demonstrate how to specify a selection region in one coordinate frame, and then transform to a different frame (and from there, construct a database query in new frame). The infrastructure and general nature of this problem led me to first develop these classes within the regions framework -- and I hope these classes could be released to the broader astronomical community as part of the regions package. If these classes could be included in regions, this would be an ideal way of providing this spherical selection & transformation functionality needed as part of the Roman Research Nexus example user notebooks.

I've put together a demo jupyter notebook walking through the core functionality (including plot demos) here: https://github.com/sedonaprice/regions/blob/add-spherical-regions-with-demo-NB/demo_spherical_regions.ipynb

I have marked this as a draft pull request because I have "tested" this code in a few demos (including the one linked above), but some work is outstanding as follows (pending a green light):

  • Test suite for SphericalSkyRegion classes (complete)
  • Create documentation pages + demos for the new functionality (and edit other doc pages as necessary) --- based on the below demo, but chunked out into separate topical entries. (complete
  • Decision on handling of serialization for spherical regions (keyword switch to use spherical?), or add note to docs that serialization will default read in planar SkyRegion classes only. No serialization support for now / for consideration in a future PR.
  • Decision on whether or not (and how) to implement planar -> spherical conversion if boundary distortions are to be included. For consideration in a future PR.

If folks think these classes would be a good candidate for inclusion, I will implement the outstanding test suite and documentation (and other code additions, pending discussion on the points noted above).

Related issues:
These new classes would address the following issues:

and also help to achieve the aims in:

An implementation (to be done) supporting conversion from planar to spherical accounting for boundary distortions would also address #217 (I have ideas on how to implement this, based on the spherical region class discretization).

Thanks, and looking forward to any feedback! I'd be very grateful for initial feedback by mid Sept (09/15), so I can work on next steps (either on the outstanding tasks, or figuring out some other way of enabling the functionality for the RRN example notebooks).

TODO

  • Remove demo notebook.
  • Add proper documentation.
  • Add tests.
  • Squash out demo notebook in the commits or make sure maintainer use "Squash and Merge" button when merging.

@keflavich
Copy link
Contributor

Awesome to see this finally implemented!

The jupyter notebook is great. I agree, it needs to be chunked out into docs.

For serialization, we are defining a new standard here, afaik. I recommend we make something that is still compatible with CARTA/DS9 serializations but, when read with astropy, can be interpreted as SphericalSkyRegions instead of projected sky regions.

The big concern is that, for very large images loaded into ds9/carta, there will be inconsistency between the astropy & viewer interpretation of the same file, and I don't like introducing that. So... yeah, there's an argument that we serialize in a way that ds9/carta will ignore these regions rather than show potentially incorrect regions.

I'd recommend splitting out the serialization and distortion questions into separate issues to handle after the main functionality is merged.

@sedonaprice
Copy link
Author

Definitely, will chunk it out!

That sounds very reasonable as far as serialization and distortion (for planar -> spherical).

I'll note for completeness that I did implement distortion for spherical->planar (which I'd argue is good to keep in this PR and not split out; but perhaps I'm reading too much into your comment).

@keflavich
Copy link
Contributor

No need to split that out, imo. I meant this bullet: "Decision on whether or not (and how) to implement planar -> spherical conversion if boundary distortions are to be included." should be a separate issue

pllim
pllim previously requested changes Aug 22, 2025
Copy link
Member

@pllim pllim left a comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

I don't see any tests. Do you plan to add them?

I can't really do any meaningful review of the contents but maybe @mcara (maintainer of spherical-geometry) and @perrygreenfield can, or point to people who can.

Thanks!

@sedonaprice
Copy link
Author

@pllim -- Thanks!

Re tests: I was holding off on implementing proper tests until there was consensus that this draft pull request is something that the maintainers would want to include in the package. I definitely plan to add tests as soon as there is go-ahead consensus!

(Also before finalizing, I would remove the demo NB and all changes to .pre-commit-config.yaml from the repo -- those were only temporary measures to get the NB into my fork for discussion purposes.)

@pllim
Copy link
Member

pllim commented Aug 22, 2025

Sounds good. Thanks! I added a "todo" section in your OP above, please update as needed. I will do a general technical re-review when this PR is at final stage. Good luck!

@sedonaprice
Copy link
Author

sedonaprice commented Aug 22, 2025

I've moved the demo notebook into a separate branch on my fork for reference, and to "clean up" the draft pull-request branch. (https://github.com/sedonaprice/regions/blob/add-spherical-regions-with-demo-NB/demo_spherical_regions.ipynb; also updated to this link in the initial comment)

Splitting the demo notebook out into separate topical docs sections is on the to-do list, along with the test suite (pending discussion of the big picture as above).

@sedonaprice sedonaprice force-pushed the add-spherical-regions branch from a408420 to eea88de Compare August 22, 2025 17:37
@sedonaprice
Copy link
Author

(Demo notebook + precommit changes squashed out of this branch)

@astrofrog
Copy link
Member

Thank you for working on this! I can help review this in September once I am back at work 😊

@sedonaprice
Copy link
Author

Quick note: I've gone ahead and implemented tests for the code as it stands right now. (And found a few fairly minimal logic bugs to fix, while I was at it.)

Looking forward to feedback & further discussion!

Copy link
Member

@astrofrog astrofrog left a comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

I've had a chance to take a look at this, and while I am not one of the regions maintainers, I think it would be great to include this so I would encourage you to proceed with writing the docs etc. This is very useful functionality! 💯

I agree with @keflavich that we should worry about serialization after this PR though, because I think the main code/functionality is needed irrespective of whether we find ways to serialize it to some of the formats where there might be ambiguities.

At this point, the only thing I am not sure about API wise is the transformation of sky regions to other systems. In particular, while it's cool that this works:

>>> lonlat_range_transf = lonlat_range.transform_to("icrs")
>>> lonlat_range_transf
<RangeSphericalSkyRegion(
frame=<class 'astropy.coordinates.builtin_frames.icrs.ICRS'>,
longitude_bounds=<LuneSphericalSkyRegion(center_gc1=<SkyCoord (ICRS): (ra, dec) in deg
    (288.42757587, 10.72370325)>, center_gc2=<SkyCoord (ICRS): (ra, dec) in deg
    (217.98010947, -60.49575721)>)>,
latitude_bounds=<CircleAnnulusSphericalSkyRegion(center=<SkyCoord (ICRS): (ra, dec) in deg
    (192.85947789, 27.12825241)>, inner_radius=45.0 deg, outer_radius=90.0 deg)>
)>

It looks pretty complex (in particular the use of nested regions) and I'm not sure I understand the benefit of this. If someone accesses the vertices, they can always convert these between different frames, but I'm not sure that it makes sense to transform the whole spherical sky region. I guess fundamentally, what is the value in allowing sky regions to be transformed between frames since they are still fundamentally the same region? For instance, contains should work regardless of frames, and if someone does to_pixel for plotting they have to pass a WCS anyway. What use cases require transform_to?

@sedonaprice
Copy link
Author

sedonaprice commented Sep 17, 2025

Hi @astrofrog --

For the specific case above ("range"), the issue with just using the vertices is that a lon/lat "range" is bounded by great circles along the lines of constant longitude, but small or great circles along the lines of constant latitude. A spherical polygon defined with the same vertices would end up "bulging out" past the lines of constant latitude, so isn't equivalent.

I had added the "transforms_to()", including the nested regions, because circles transform neatly (as long as it's a spherical to spherical tranformation). Thus, since all spherical regions region can be represented as the appropriate circles (for polygons, indeed the transformation boils down to "transform the vertices and then remake the polygon, because great circles' centers transform easily; for small circles, again only the center transforms, the radius stays the same), yes the region is the same in all frames --- as long as the appropriate circle centers + radii are kept track of.

As I've implemented it, "contains()" actually does work regardless of frame (because the SkyCoord to be evaluated will be transformed to the region frame, if necessary)

The "transforms_to()" addresses the issue of "a user can define a region in their preferred non-ICRS frame, but needs to query against a database that only knows about ICRS" -- by transforming the region to ICRS, it's then possible to do bounding lon/lat in ICRS for search constraints, or a bounding circle (though of course the bounding circle transforms "easily".

(Definitely plotting requires "to_pixel" and a WCS, but the use case this was implemented to address is database/table searches with mismatches in coordinate frame.)

@sedonaprice
Copy link
Author

Hi folks,

I've gone through and put together (draft) documentation for spherical regions (and edits to existing sections where relevant). The changes are now in the PR branch, but are also visible "live" at https://sedonaprice.github.io/regions-docs-tmp/ (temporary; I wasn't sure about how other github actions from various branches in my fork would execute, so I created a separate repo for the build + temporary publication of these draft docs).

Please let me know if you have and comments or suggestions on the docs!

(Also, now that there is a full set of draft docs and a test suite, please let me know if it would be a good time to convert this from a draft PR to a normal PR.)

@sedonaprice sedonaprice marked this pull request as ready for review October 22, 2025 16:12
@sedonaprice sedonaprice requested a review from pllim October 22, 2025 16:12
@pllim
Copy link
Member

pllim commented Oct 22, 2025

I don't maintain this package, so I am not qualified to review. Sorry and good luck!

@astrofrog
Copy link
Member

@sedonaprice - I should have time to review this next week, could you rebase though to resolve the conflict?

@astrofrog
Copy link
Member

@larrybradley @keflavich - since I'm not a maintainer of the package, one of you should obviously have a look at this too, so once I've reviewed this and am happy with this I'll approve but won't merge.

@sedonaprice sedonaprice force-pushed the add-spherical-regions branch from 7dc5157 to d69f932 Compare November 3, 2025 19:37
Copy link
Member

@astrofrog astrofrog left a comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

Overall this looks good, but one remaining big picture comment/question in addition to a few in-line comments below: are we expecting that some of the to_spherical_sky operations that are currently NotImplementedError might be implemented in future? My understanding is that some of them will never be implemented because they don't make sense/can't be done. The Python docs say about NotImplementedError:

Note It should not be used to indicate that an operator or method is not meant to be supported at all – in that case either leave the operator / method undefined or, if a subclass, set it to None.

Basically we should not be using NotImplementedError and instead should just not add the method where it doesn't make sense. In addition, if it can't be implemented for include_boundary_distortions=True, I would suggest either removing that keyword argument altogether, or raising a ValueError if it's set to True.

Aside from this, please add an entry to the changelog.

self._is_original_frame = kwargs.pop('_is_original_frame', True)

# TODO:
# Validate lon/lat range inputs, to ensure lat range has expected definition.
Copy link
Member

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

Do you plan to do this in future or is it easy to do now?

Copy link
Author

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

Right, this slipped through -- I'll implement this after addressing other points.

Copy link
Author

@sedonaprice sedonaprice Nov 6, 2025

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

Implemented in 14d4d23, for your review @astrofrog.

# --- only a concern for RangeSphericalSkyRegion....

@property
def __longitude_bounds(self):
Copy link
Member

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

I would just use a single underscore here (and there may be other ones, but I'l only comment here)

Copy link
Author

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

Here (and elsewhere for the latitude bounds), I was trying to do the following:
_longitude_bounds is set as an attribute. longitude_bounds is a property that returns the pre-set attribute _longitude_bounds if it is set, but if _longitude_bounds is None, then derive the longitude bounds on the fly through __longitude_bounds.

This chain was implemented because for Range instances that have changed coordinate frame, the longitude/latitude bounds must be passed when creating the instance, as there are no "ranges" stored (and thus the bounds cannot be derived on the fly) as it's no longer in the frame where the original range definitions make sense.

In retrospect, this is more obfuscated than it needs to be. I could change __longitude_bounds to a private method _derive_longitude_bounds(). This would make the purpose of the internal method more clear.

Copy link
Author

@sedonaprice sedonaprice Nov 6, 2025

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

I've renamed & changed these from properties to methods as noted above in af45508.

@astrofrog If this change seems reasonable, this can be marked as resolved.

return None

def transform_to(self, frame):
# TODO: handle offset origin transformations
Copy link
Member

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

Do we need to if it's the whole sky?

Copy link
Author

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

Philosophically, no. But transform_to was implemented as an abstract method in SphericalSkyRegion. Also, this preserves transformation logic for compound classes that might include it.

Happy to discuss if there's a better way of handling this!

Copy link
Author

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

Reading this again, this might relate to the "TODO" comment --- which is indeed not necessary here. This comment has been removed now.

If removing the comment resolves this point, this can be marked as resolved.

@sedonaprice
Copy link
Author

sedonaprice commented Nov 6, 2025

Hi @astrofrog --

Thank you! I'll work on addressing the review now, and add an entry to the changelog.

That's a great point about raising a ValueError for invalid inputs instead of NotImplementedError for cases when the transformation would never make sense/can't be done.

My thoughts on this are aggregated below:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Shape         |  Distortions?  |  planar to spherical    |  spherical to planar                   |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Circle        |  True          | Implement (eventually)  |   Implemented                          |
| Circle        |  False         | Implemented             |   Implemented                          |
| CircleAnnulus |  True          | Implement (eventually)  |   Implemented                          |
| CircleAnnulus |  False         | Implemented             |   Implemented                          |
| Polygon       |  True          | Implement (eventually)  |   Implemented                          |
| Polygon       |  False         | Implemented             |   Implemented                          |
| Range         |  True          | (N/A, No equiv shape)   |   Implemented                          |
| Range         |  False         | (N/A, No equiv shape)   |   Implemented                          |
| Lune          |  True          | (N/A, No equiv shape)   |   Implement (eventually)               |
| Lune          |  False         | (N/A, No equiv shape)   |   raise ValueError                     |
| (MiscAnnuli)  |  True          | Implement (eventually)  |  (Implement shapes+transf eventually)  |
| (MiscAnnuli)  |  False         | Implement (eventually)  |  (Implement shapes+transf eventually)  |
| (Rectangle)   |  True          | Implement (eventually?) |  (Implement shapes+transf eventually?) |
| (Rectangle)   |  False         | Implement (eventually?) |  (Implement shapes+transf eventually?) |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would you agree with this categorization on which cases should raise a ValueError to indicate the transformation can't be done/doesn't make sense?

This would involve the following changes from the original code:

  • Raise ValueError if transforming Range with to_pixel() or to_sky() with include_boundary_distortions=False
  • Potentially support transforming lune to planar so long as boundary distortions are included. Upon reflection, users might want to plot or do some other manipulation with overlaps of a lune on an image, and so while portions of that shape would be badly distorted, this might be something worth including in the future. Raise ValueError for lune spherical to planar, if include_boundary_distortions=False.

@sedonaprice
Copy link
Author

sedonaprice commented Nov 6, 2025

@astrofrog I've implemented:

  • validation of lon/lat range inputs (and also the bounds inputs) in commit 14d4d23
  • An update to spherical <-> planar error messages, to reflect the logical changes noted in the table above. Namely, lune and range now raise ValueError when include_boundary_distortion=False (as these aren't analogous to planar shapes), and lune raises NotImplementedError for include_boundary_distortion=True (as discretizing the boundary into a polygon does have a planar equivalent, even though it would be rather irregular). (Commit 327df12)

I've also added an entry to the changelog. If too verbose, I can reduce it to point users to docs pages with relevant details.

Includes the initial basic spherical sky regions
    - SphericalSkyRegion
    - CircleSphericalSkyRegion
    - CompoundSphericalSkyRegion
- Implement PolygonSphericalSkyRegion
- Add a method discretize_boundary() to SphericalSkyRegion classes (for sampling along the boundary, for spherical->planar transformations that account for boundary distortions, and also for plotting)
- Implement spherical region calculation helper functions
- Add bounding_lonlat() methods to SphericalSkyRegion classes
- Implement spherical region calculation helper functions
- Add spherical tests to test_api.py
- Add test_compound.py
- Add test_whole_sky.py
- Add circle shape tests to test_circle.py
- Add annulus shape tests to test_annulus.py
- Add lune shape tests in test_lune.py
- Add range shape tests in test_range.py
- Add polygon shape tests to test_polygon.py

- Fix bugs in codebase & streamlining:
    - undeclared method in WholeSphericalSkyRegion
    - missing return statement in to_spherical_sky() for CircleAnnulusSkyRegion
    - add alternative "avg" centroid handling for spherical polygon; up for discussion on definitions + method choices
    - fix validation for TwoValAngleorNone
    - Add meta, visual to WholeSphericalSkyRegion for compatibility
    - Fix combound bounding_lonlat property
    - Fix logic error in lune  bounding_lonlat (vertex/ices on pole)
    - Fix internal unit formatting issue for centroid derived from cross product (radians vs other coordinate convention)
    - Bugfixes in edge cases for annulus logic in bounding_lonlat_poles_processing()
    - Streamline range methods/properties, removing unused & orphaned statements
    - Modify ComplexSphericalSkyRegion.frame property to avoid redefining in range
    - Fix range bugs: case of nverts=3 (touches pole); pole wrapping logic for defining latitude boundary shape (simplify and center on S pole in some cases); transformation when only lon or lat set; bounding circle only lon or lat bound synatx
    - Fix bug in ComplexSphericalSkyRegion.copy()
    - Update SphericalSkyRegion.frame attribute error message
    - Add explicit PolygonSphericalSkyRegion.centroid_avg, centroid_mindist properties for clarity
- Getting started
- New index outline
- Placeholder files for new sections
- Also explicitly change spherical regions write, serialize methods to raise NotImplementedError (as this handling is not yet implemented in the registry).
- Add Spherical range to shapes docs (missed previously)
- Change representation to only print frame name, if it's defined
- Misc other doc plot improvements and bugfixes
- Misc docs plotting improvements
- Fix documentation syntax bugs
- Update tests to reflect new ComplexSphericalSkyRegion representation of coordinate frame just by its name (if defined)
- Fix missing logical case in ComplexSphericaSkyRegion repr of the frame by name.
Correct in-line comments regarding transformation between shapes with discretization for cases requiring future work: these involve spherical to planar (or vice versa) transformation, not spherical to cylindrical.
Rename tests `test_sph_transformation` to `test_spherical_sky`
Change tests to use `with pytest.raises(NotImplementedError)` instead of `except NotImplementedError`
Change on-the-fly lon/lat derivation:
Change properties `Range.__longitude_bounds` and `Range.__latitude_bounds` to instead be internal methods `Range._derive_longitude_bounds()` and `Range._derive_latitude_bounds()`
- Add to docstring that longitude values are expected to be within [0, 360] degrees, and that latitude values are expected to be within [-90, 90] degrees.
- Corrected docs examples to fit with this convention (this *could* be relaxed to allow for wrapping around longitude = 0, if such a change is desired in the future).
- Also change logic on longitude_bounds, latitude_bounds properties: Check if ranges for that coord are set before inferring "derive on the fly", as bounds of None is valid (eg, range of just Latitude or just Longitude).
- Change range spherical -> planar no distortions to raise ValueError (poorly defined)
- Change lune to raise a ValueError for no distortions (not defined, no analogous shape), and a NotImplementedErrors for distortions=True (as this can be defined, via boundary discretization)
- Update tests to catch ValueErrors instead of NotImplementedErrors where these are changed.
@sedonaprice sedonaprice force-pushed the add-spherical-regions branch from e9b27cf to b506340 Compare November 6, 2025 21:56
@sedonaprice
Copy link
Author

sedonaprice commented Nov 6, 2025

Note: rebased as this had fallen behind the v0.11 release.

Also fixed a bug in validation error raising (incorrectly had as assert) noted from CI/CD check failure (and then fixing an introduced logic mistake).

@sedonaprice sedonaprice force-pushed the add-spherical-regions branch from eb8321e to 422c847 Compare November 6, 2025 22:07
Sign up for free to join this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in to comment

Projects

None yet

Development

Successfully merging this pull request may close these issues.

Support for three IVOA region types as astropy.regions objects: what to do about RANGE? Add spherical circles and polygons?

4 participants