Roadmap of Seeed XIAO: You Decide What We Build Next!

[limengdu]

👋 Welcome to the Roadmap Discussions of Seeed XIAO.

We’re using this Discussion as a platform to connect with and get valuable feedback from the vibrant community of all XIAO owners. Here we'll share our dev roadmap proposals for the beloved XIAO (new features, new functions, new products for both XIAO boards and their accessories). And at the same time, we're inviting you to join to co-create the whole process by:

• Vote your favorite 💚 roadmap entries by clicking the up arrow ⬆️ or joining the discussion
• Add your proposals for the roadmap or share your wishes, ideas, suggestions, or feedback by initiating New Discussion. Everyone can suggest features or propose new products, accessories by opening New Discussion on GitHub. We review all suggestions. If a suggestion is a good fit, we'll open it for vote by adding the "Open for Vote" label, and we'll make it real if it gets lots of votes.
• Engage with other community members.

Please be open-minded and remember that this is a community we build together 💪.

[CWGwaltney]

Just wanted to say hi!

[Pitigoi94]

Here is the grandfather. 😃

[Wickramanayaka]

Hi

[oroborosnz]

I love the XIAO Sense boards, but I've had zero success in replacing CircuitPython with MicroPython.

CircuitPython has its advantages, but if the platform is really going to find its feet, I think XIAO needs to step away from proprietary builds. Is there a path toward providing MicroPython XIAOs out of the box? If so, let me know!

[clovisf]

Totally agree, if we are talking Python we gotta be looking at microPython.

[rivimey]

Can someone explain why it matters? CP is a derivative of MP, so why would anyone care which was being used?

[clovisf]

CP is created and maintained by a company, Adafruit. MP was not. Don't they say it is always better to run away from things created by companies?

[oroborosnz]

... And I don't want to appear that I'm ganging up - anyone can Google the differences between the two versions - but the significant differences are Libraries are different, CP is optimised for Adafruit boards, and MP has a larger, more diverse community.

Adafruit has a vested interest in selling their own hardware. I'm not saying they're evil: just a business. Their business model is built around hobbyists, beginners and one-time-job users, and it's in their interests to make using their gear easy, curated, error-free. Commendable points.

However, the far wider userbase includes non-Adafruit equipment users, with HUGE populations in the sciences, research and development, APIs to databases, as well as new users of Python. If you start using CircuitPython to operate with MicroPython environments, things will break.

In short: CircuitPython keeps you safe, but in the nursery for the rest of your programming experiences. MicroPython is less resilient, but positions you and your systems for growth, adaptability, interoperation and extension.

[rei-vilo]

Hi!

What I like most of the Xiao family of boards are: the compact form-factor, the castellated pins that make them easy to integrate into a final design, and the great value .

Please find below some suggestions:

• Improve the software experience. Too many boards raise issues during flashing, including bricking. The only solution then is to use and external debugger to clean the mess.
• Replace the USB connector by a SWD connector. The USB connector takes too much space and is of limited use. The SWD pads on the reverse side of the Xiao boards are not easy to use and I am not a bing fan of the fragile pogo pins featured by the Xiao Expansion Board. Once the Xiao is mounted in the final design, the SWD pads are no longer accessible unless they are rerouted. The 2x5 0.05" connector is very compact, and some variants even include power and UART RX/TX signals.
• Release an affordable programmer-debugger. The Raspberry Pi Debug Probe brings the best-in-class value, with its fool-proof connector, software tools suite and UART RX/TX signals
• Bring LoRa to the Xiao family. If the E5 SoC is too large, why not consider the CC1312 / CC1352 from Texas Instruments? It is supported by Energia, a fork of Arduino for the TI MCUs. Additionally, it natively supports TI-RTOS.
• Bring Thread to the Xiao family. Silicon Labs has ported its SDK to Arduino with native a Matter library.

All the best!

[limengdu]

Hi! 你好！

What I like most of the Xiao family of boards are: the compact form-factor, the castellated pins that make them easy to integrate into a final design, and the great value .我最喜欢Xiao系列主板的一点是：紧凑的外形、使它们易于集成到最终设计中的城堡形引脚以及巨大的价值。

Please find below some suggestions:请在下面找到一些建议：

• Improve the software experience. Too many boards raise issues during flashing, including bricking. The only solution then is to use and external debugger to clean the mess.改善软件体验。太多的主板在刷新过程中会出现问题，包括变砖。唯一的解决方案是使用外部调试器来清理混乱。
• Replace the USB connector by a SWD connector. The USB connector takes too much space and is of limited use. The SWD pads on the reverse side of the Xiao boards are not easy to use and I am not a bing fan of the fragile pogo pins featured by the Xiao Expansion Board. Once the Xiao is mounted in the final design, the SWD pads are no longer accessible unless they are rerouted. The 2x5 0.05" connector is very compact, and some variants even include power and UART RX/TX signals.将 USB 连接器替换为 SWD 连接器。 USB连接器占用太多空间并且用途有限。 Xiao 板背面的 SWD 焊盘不太好用，而且我不太喜欢 Xiao 扩展板的脆弱弹簧针。一旦将Xiao安装到最终设计中，就无法再访问SWD焊盘，除非重新布线。 2x5 0.05" 连接器非常紧凑，某些型号甚至包括电源和 UART RX/TX 信号。
• Release an affordable programmer-debugger. The Raspberry Pi Debug Probe brings the best-in-class value, with its fool-proof connector, software tools suite and UART RX/TX signals发布一个价格实惠的程序员调试器。 Raspberry Pi 调试探针凭借其万无一失的连接器、软件工具套件和 UART RX/TX 信号带来了一流的价值
• Bring LoRa to the Xiao family. If the E5 SoC is too large, why not consider the CC1312 / CC1352 from Texas Instruments? It is supported by Energia, a fork of Arduino for the TI MCUs. Additionally, it natively supports TI-RTOS.将LoRa带到肖家。如果 E5 SoC 太大，为什么不考虑德州仪器 (TI) 的 CC1312 / CC1352？它由 Energia 支持，Energia 是 TI MCU 的 Arduino 分支。此外，它本身支持 TI-RTOS。
• Bring Thread to the Xiao family. Silicon Labs has ported its SDK to Arduino with native a Matter library.把Thread带到萧家去。 Silicon Labs 已将其 SDK 移植到 Arduino，并带有原生的 Matter 库。

All the best! 一切顺利！

I have a question, I would like to know what is your reason for wanting to use the SWD interface on the XIAO? Is it for chip development? From our point of view, there are two main considerations:

1. for our main group (Arduino users), is there a smooth enough program uploading process
2. Whether there is enough user base to support SWD interface instead of USB, JLink connector is not cheap, I doubt about it
3. Whether SWD interface can solve the problem that XIAO often turns into a brick.

[rei-vilo]

I have a question, I would like to know what is your reason for wanting to use the SWD interface on the XIAO? Is it for chip development? From our point of view, there are two main considerations:

1. for our main group (Arduino users), is there a smooth enough program uploading process
2. Whether there is enough user base to support SWD interface instead of USB, JLink connector is not cheap, I doubt about it
3. Whether SWD interface can solve the problem that XIAO often turns into a brick.

Hi,

The Xiao boards allow to incorporate a powerful MCU on a project thanks to their castellated pins.

Alas, the user experience is rather limited, due first to the very small RESET and BOOT buttons, and then to the high rate of issues raised by flashing.

I am using the Xiao Expansion Board to unbrick the boards, and then to program them in a regular basis. As a disclosure, I took part in the definition of the Xiao Expansion Board.

The boards mostly affected by the freeze during upload are the nRF52840 and the RP2040, but the SAMD21 and ESP32 are also concerned.

The debugger I am using is a Segger Edu mini I bought when it was priced at USD20. It goes now at USD60, hence the opportunity for Seeed to release a probe pretty much like what Raspberry Pi did. Actually, I am no longer using the USB connector unless my project relies on the feature as the debugger provides a much better and more reliable experience.

If I had to choose between the USB connector and the SWD (or similar) connector, I would go for the SWD (or similar) connector. Again, my main use of the Xiaos is incorporating a powerful MCU on a project thanks to their castellated pins.

I am sorry to say that, unless the freezing rate drops significantly, the Xiao boards are listed as "on hold" of my emCode project and that I would not recommend them for early makers. Seeed could take interesting ideas from Adafruit Qt Py boards.

As debugging is a critical part of embedded systems, Seeed could release an affordable debugger and help Arduino users to learn how to use it.

Those ideas are nothing new: I have already posted them on the forum, on the Discord channel, on private forums, and shared with Seeed employees in person.

Thank you and best regards,

[limengdu]

Thank you for your patience in explaining this and I will make a note of your comments.

[rei-vilo]

I have started a dedicated thread for the Affordable programmer-debugger probe by Seeed.

[oroborosnz]

I have nothing of substance to add here. I just wanted to say that rei-vilo is my new hero :)

[rivimey]

Like the XAIO RP2040 in particular, which I used mostly with personalised circuitpython builds.

The software experience is good enough at present, but I agree that very many smaller MCU platforms fail on the software, so looking after that side is IMO important. Specifically, a template project for non-trivial Rust development would be an interesting path.

I also agree that the castellated pads are good and wouldn't wish xaio to go down the route of e.g. the QtPy (with components both sides) because that makes it harder to use.

I disagree with rei-vilo in that I find the USB-C connector very useful for data+power supply and it is lovely this is a standard connector so no custom leads to find.

I can see some advantage in including a battery powered xaio in the range, though I don't know how it could be done in the board space available. I wouldn't object to flying leads as connection to the battery, if that helps.

Could xaio go double-decker? Would it be possible to add a parallel board "on top" to house e.g. battery charge circuit or swd pins?

I too like the RP debug probe, (though not it's connector). If there was a way to improve the debug experience that would be interesting but I can't think of any practical changes because of the small space available.

How I use it:

I've built several boards where the xaio rp2040 is the core of what could loosely be called an IoT device, such as temp/humidity sensor with integration to prometheus for server environment monitoring.

I have also built a PC-style temperature sensor fan controller where the rp2040 acts as the control hub and usb interface.

[clovisf]

Have used the ESP32-C6 and loved it, just waiting for the CircuitPython and micropython binaries. The Xiao form factor is just amazing for small projects.

Would like to see chips from more vendors, for example Texas and Microchip. This is in order for users to learn other ecosystems.

Also an interesting fact about the -C6 I faced: I put an ams1117-3.3 to supply the Xiao and it did not like it, ended up supllying the Vin with 5v directly

[CWGwaltney]

please provide any ideas for XIOA master system ... grove modues and expansion boards...

[rivimey]

It is really simple to compile circuitpython for your boars (presuming the basic port is there). I would expect the same is true for micropython. Have a go!

[oroborosnz]

It really isn't. Tried twice to load MicroPython on the XIAO Sense - Bricked it both times :/

[CWGwaltney]

https://www.seeedstudio.com/Grove-Beginner-Kit-for-Arduino-p-4549.html

I want to make a XIAO version of this device with as many extra stuff that can be found uesful for XIAO development... That is for Kids ... this one will be for the big boys

[botamochi6277]

Hello, I develop luminous katana using XIAO nRF52840 Sense.
The XIAO in the katana controls full color LEDs according to motions measured by the embed IMU.
The tiny and sensor embed board is very useful for developing small gadgets.

To enhance experience developing small gadgets, I would like the following items.

• ESP32 based XIAO having sensors including IMUs and microphones. Some libraries cannot work in nRF52840.
• Tiny extension boards for XIAO family which size is twice the size of XIAO. I made a tiny extension. But, it's difficult for me to make a thin board connecting XIAO back pads (battery pad and reset pads)

[CWGwaltney]

That little board extension is AWESOME! they are thinking of comming out with a XIAO Pro which is longer! more exposed GPIO pins

[mafzal9]

I love the XIAO Series. specially latest C6 which contains the zigbee update. But still we need the following features in XIAO series.

1-LoRaWAN
2-Celluar Support with E-Sim to make it more suitable in size and remove the requirements of physical sim card.
3-Thread Support

[rivimey]

what do you mean by "thread support"? Is this a wireless protocol like "matter" or multiple processes running on chip, or multiple CPUs, or something else?

Zibgee/Matter/... hardware is chip dependent, so the ESP and nRF devices tend to have something, others don't. The Xiao format is not large enough to add more large chips, so...
Multiple CPUs: Xiao RP2040 has 2x Arm cores at up to 133MHz
Multiple processes: mostly this is a software thing, not hardware. I don't think circuitpython can run true multiprocess setups but the 'asyncio' feature works.

[limengdu]

I think he's referring to OpenThread support.

[bitprecisionconsulting]

CC1101 x Xiao for low cost, enterprise-grade sub gig applications?

[rei-vilo]

Better than the CC1101, I would recommend the CC1312 / CC1352 from Texas Instruments. It is already supported by a fork of Arduino, Energia, which additionally brings an RTOS, TI-RTOS.

The CC1312 features sub-1 GHz, while the CC1352 combines sub-1 GHz and 2.4 GHz with Bluetooth.

The previous iteration was CC1310 and CC1350.

[bitprecisionconsulting]

Hey thanks chief, I am new to SDR and cc1101 is my only point of reference.

[djairjr]

I would really like to see an improved version of the Xiao Expansion Board, with TFT display and I2S sound output, using the max98357a, keeping SD Card, RTC and battery.

[Uspizig]

Done: only missed the RTC and the battery: https://twitter.com/USpizig/status/1772355887870439928

[tbrasser]

I'd love to see a lora+gps+ble(beaco)+battery mini tracking device (for my cats).

the only design that comes close is the "katzentracker" but I am afraid that has turned into vapourware

[JimKnopf24]

I would like a PoE injector for the Xiao series that can also be used to transfer data. This would be fantastic for outdoor use, especially for the mmwave modules.

[rei-vilo]

For the Xiao Pro, could we consider extra length for additional pins while keeping the same width 0.6"?

The extra space would host

• the additional pins,
• plus normally sized buttons (RESET and BOOT),
• plus connectors for debugging (SWDIO, SWCLK, GROUND). The connectors could be a fool-proof 2x5 0.05" SWD (like the 9-pin Cortex-M plug), a 3-wire 1mm JST-SH (like the Raspberry Pi proprietary connector) or 3 basic 0.1" male pins.

Now, the ESP32 seems to require more debugging signals for JTAG.

[xenoglyph]

There is an extremely loyalty inducing aspect to seeing companies and organizations that value and implement their customers suggestions. Glad to see you doing so!

[meilily]

THanks, @xenoglyph!

[JuaJin26]

Congratulations on winning the XIAO Relay Box. Please contact us at [email protected] to claim your voucher. @xenoglyph

[JuaJin26]

@xenoglyph
Hi, can u email us ur
Name:
Full Address (please include City, State, Country)
Post Code:
Email:
Tel Phone:
Thank u :)

[JuaJin26]

Btw, pls kindly note that we’ll cover the shipping fee but the custom duties (if any) will be covered by the recipient. Are u okay with it?

[Uspizig]

You made a very fast release of the Xiao RP2350. In my opinion this was too fast.
Wishlist:

• Can we please get a second release Xiao RP2350 with GPIOs 12-19 broken out., These pins are the HSTX pins.... and these pins can be used for DVI out

[JuaJin26]

Congratulations on winning the XIAO Relay Box. Please contact us at [email protected] to claim your voucher. @Uspizig

[Uspizig]

Could you please make on the XIAO ESP32-S3 Sense a proper GPIO0 and RESET Pad on the back. This would help soo much during development

[georgwacker]

I would love a XIAO nRF52840 dongle with a male usb interface.

This would be especially useful as a dongle for popular ZMK split keyboards. Now there are some nRF52840 dongles out there, but they are quite large.

With a minimal enclosure plugged into a USB-Hub, the castellated IO on both side is probably too wide for such a dongle.
One alternative would be IO pins on the opposite side of the USB interface. But that would increase size.

I would argue that IO pins are not needed for a minimal dongle use case. Perhaps have some solder pads on the underside for people who really do need it for their usecase. And otherwise make the footprint as small as possible.

[JuaJin26]

Congratulations on winning the XIAO Relay Box！We already sent u an email regarding the details.

[MSDreamLab]

You should have a XIAO module with an STM32WLE5JC microcontroller in your offer.
Boards enabling long-range communication (both LoRaWAN and LTE-M or Nb-IoT) would be a nice addition.

It is also worth considering a base board for XIAO with RS485 and CAN transceivers.

[meilily]

Hi @MSDreamLab, thanks for your suggestion. Yes, we got quite an amount of embedding the popular STM2WLE5JC to XIAO. Since the size of the MCU is a bit too big for the classic form factor, the team is working hard to locate another solution. :)

Regarding RS485, we'll have an add-on very soon. Stay tuned. As for CAN, did you know that we already have a CAN Bus Breakout Board for XIAO, which you can play around CAN with XIAO?

[JuaJin26]

Congratulations on winning the XIAO Relay Box. Please contact us at [email protected] to claim your voucher. @MSDreamLab

[chalei]

the new xiao relay board is awesome

[JuaJin26]

Congratulations on winning the XIAO Relay Box. Please contact us at [email protected] to claim your voucher.

[SemTex-H]

XIAO

[JuaJin26]

Congratulations on winning the XIAO Relay Box. Please contact us at [email protected] to claim your voucher. @SemTex-H

[PjGLasso]

Xiao... LOL

[JuaJin26]

Congratulations on winning the XIAO Relay Box. We've sent u a message through LinkedIn abt the redeem details. @PjGLasso

[limengdu]

Please take care of privacy